Australia's South Coast Foam warehouse

The Great  Foam Forum: Thoughts on foam AC (After Clark) from shapers, distributors and manufacturers.

By Ben Marcus

The Great  Foam Forum: Thoughts on foam AC (After Clark) from shapers, distributors and manufacturers. Profiles from all the different foam suppliers as well as alternative surfboard manufacturers like Aviso and Surf Tech and m10. Included are opinions on the foam market from distributors and manufacturers such as Lost, Just Foam, Eskimo and more.

AVISO - DR. BRANDT NEWCOMER - Director Business Development

www.avisosurf.com
info@avisosurf.com

Where were you before Clark closed?

Aviso had finished the final prototype and had completed beta run tests of the product with shops and pro riders. We went to market a few months before the closure of Clark foam. Our technology and business was launched independent of Clark foam closing. At the time of Clark foam we had 7 shaper/designers and around 17 boards, today we have 13 shaper/designers and over 37 designs.

When did you enter the surfboard market?

2006 was our maiden year. Our boards are twice the price of a PU board.  The price is dictated by the cost of carbon fiber and partially by being an American-made product. They last significantly longer but surfers are afraid to commit to a high-ticket item unless the proposition is very clear. Over time our value is self-evident and this has translated into growing consumer confidence and positive sell through.

Our niche market is a smaller percentage of the market but one that demands performance and durability. The casual novice surfer will benefit from our technology but we have designed a product for the highly committed surfer that wants to improve the level of his capabilities in all types of wave conditions.

What is different about your product? Advantages and disadvantages?

Advantages - Flex and Durability are the key differentiating factors of our boards vs. other technologies. Flex in addition to the boards being lighter than PU bolster performance features. Aviso surfboards are on average 6 X stronger the PU boards on the durability index.

Disadvantages - Price is expensive but we believe surfing is worth the investment. Customization is limited to changing flex, and to tuning up the rails slightly, we can increase/decrease carbon content to change flex and strength as well. No customization beyond these variables can be made.

Did the closure of Clark open new opportunities for your product?

Although we developed our technology independent of the closure of Clark foam, shapers realized a weakness inherent in the system they grew so dependent upon. This made them more open to explore alternatives.

Where do you see the market going, and will you go with it?

There is not a single surfer that will not benefit from our boards. Every board and board construction/ material has its place with a particular rider on a particular wave. Any surfboard can be utilized to the fullest of its potential given certain limitations. We see Aviso significantly reducing those limitations placed on the surfer in terms of his equipment choice.

We believe Aviso represents the most balanced surfboard when it comes to the relationship between performance and durability. We honestly see foam as reaching its obsolescence and composite construction techniques become more available and appealing, Aviso will be at the forefront of this charge. We also see the shaper returning to more of a designer and leveraging high tech tools to understand flex and hydrodynamics in attempts to improve performance.
 
BENNETT FOAM - MARTY GILCHRIST

sales@bennettfoam.us
www.bennettfoam.us

How did you get involved with Bennett Foam?

On Blank Monday I called Loraine at Mitches to order some foam and she advised the news. I was really shocked. I was really worried in regards to Grubby's abrupt closure and how this would affect so many people's lives and families! I immediately thought the business should go to Mexico and since I had very strong ties to some influential friends in Ensenada because of the old Rip Curl factory I called them immediately.

Who else are involved?

Bennett Foam USA is a family business: There is myself and my sister Debby who runs the office. My good pal Jim Lovett helps with the sales. We financed the operation and we have some investors also. Like Bennett Australia, we wanted to keep this a family business.

What was Bennett's presence in the American market before Blank Monday?

Dennis at Lamination's Hawaii was getting some containers from Barry but that was just about it.

 What was Bennett's presence in the international market before Blank Monday? Where were they strongest?

Definitely Australia, Japan, Europe, and Asia.

Where were you when you heard about Clark's announcement, and what did you think?

See above sorry. We located a building in south Ensenada and very quickly rented it. We had spoken to a few foam companies from Oz and then started talking with Barry. The more conversations we had with him the more we realized this guy isn't just a foam legend but he is one of the most stand-up guys you will ever meet.

Then he asked us if we wanted to make Bennett Foam USA. We were ecstatic because of his quality, experience, and reputation. We actually never planned on making foam. It was my sister who motivated me to go in this direction. At first I just wanted to try and remedy this situation as quick as possible. I live in Leucadia and on my street there are so many shapers, glassers, machine operators etc. also it was right before Christmas and this was really going to affect so many families.

How quickly did the Bennett supply line to America change after Blank Monday?

Barry's factory was already working double shifts so he received tons of emails and calls but he could only spare very little supply. Dennis received foam as he had before, Al received some, and Hank Warner and John Kies received a container through Fitz.

Who made the decision to start production here? My sister and I and we chose Mexico for our factory location. We had the contacts, which really help down here. We are not reacting the PU formula. Barry does this in Australia and ships it directly to the port in Ensenada.

There is almost no hazardous materials or chemicals in our factory. We also mirror all the safety standards in place in California. We chose Mexico because of our strong beliefs in helping this country build their economy and work place. We also wanted to pass on our savings to the board builders by keeping the prices low.

In as many words as you want, describe what it took to ramp up production for Bennett in America? Where do you begin?

First of all Barry had two of his guys come over and also a container full of parts, metal, etc. It was a huge job getting the goods imported into Mexico before our Maquiladora was in place. The crew, Russ and Brad had to teach all of us everything!

We might of grown up shaping and glassing all our own boards but making foam we knew absolutely nothing about! All we knew was which plugs and what weights to order. Also in the early 70's we knew if we drove over to Clark's Dick Morales might sell us a few seconds out the front door. I never knew we would build everything including the molds, the mixers, cool rooms, cure rooms, glue racks, light boxes, cutting tables, the mill, so much stuff!

The Aussies were very patient with us. We were driving to states daily for some odd ball nut and bolt etc. There was also all the paper work of setting up the Mexican corporation, tax permits, bank accounts, FM-3's, social security, building permit, and so on this was a huge amount of work. We really lucked out when Terry Martin and Rusty helped us start.

Terry made many new plugs and Rusty had all the original Clark plugs which he gave us and now he and Terry are extending the family so to speak. Two really great guys for our industry!

What were the headaches and uncertainties?

Making foam is really hard! We thought it would be so easy boy were we wrong. We started making foam and all was going well till we had that humidity stretch last summer. All of a sudden we had large cell structure, soft spots, etc. We would send out 10 blanks to a shaper and they would call back saying "we really liked 6 or 7 but the rest were ......" then we credited a few shipments and took back any bad foam out there. So we stopped for 3-4 weeks. Barry came over and in one week he showed us 8-10 tricks which made a huge difference.

All of a sudden we had this beautiful really white foam, insane density way deep into the core, no pour lines, and the flex and strength of the foam was amazing. Then we had consistency. Great relief as we probably wasted over 100K in formula trying to get it right. It's really amazing what guys like Barry, Grubby, Don Burford, etc know from so many years making blanks. We will never say anything bad about anyone's foam because this is really hard to do. Remember how may commercial foam companies stated they were going to make surfboard blanks a year ago? There's a reason there not around today!

Also one of the biggest changes in the last 12 months has been the new PU foam blanks. It seems like the mags are only writing about new molded technology or EPS. But only the shapers are talking about the new PU's. These new foams are so much different than what we all grew up with. Maybe it's because Grubby had a monopoly and in Australia there's competition! The new PU foam is really white almost white to blue instead of the white to beige we had.

Also the blanks are really dense way into the core of the blank unlike our old foam if you took to many cuts off the blanks they became really soft and then you would have heaps of deck dents after your first surf! The blanks also flex differently and with the strength the boards last longer. I'm amazed when I go in the shaping room and compare the new foam to our old blanks. This is a huge change for surfboards in America and with this you will see all sorts of new stringer combos, parabolics, glue ups, even stringerless. You can cut way deep into the blanks without affecting strength and because of this strength you can go lighter. Very exciting! 

I know you have Steve Ogles involved with you, and he must be the most efficient, practical, high tech person I have ever met. Has Bennett innovated any technology to make the blank process faster and/or cleaner and/or more efficient?

Yes Steve is our investor, a very bright and great guy. He and his partners have created some fascinating new technologies. Barry has new machines and procedures which we have built into this factory. He thinks it's state of the art compared to his factory (opened in 62). Since we receive the reacted formula we do not have to deal with any chemicals or TDI. All the bad stuff is reacted out of the formula when we receive it.

In fact we cannot even add a quart of resin to a shipment as it makes it hazardous! The new glues we use are not toxic or harmful to the touch. For a PU factory this is very safe and green. From my past wetsuit experience I love technologies so we will focus a lot of our future time and try and reinvent the wheel!

Our next step is the USA is a distribution hub to get the product to the accounts quicker! Grubby had great service as we need to match or better it!

Anything else you want to add?

One thing I'm hearing from all the surfboard makers and this is controversial but I know you and I think Transworld has the balls to go with it: Many of the board builders think the media not just surf mages etc caused this surfboard depression. As you know LA Times, Wall Street Journal, etc all ran stores on Grubby's closure.

This caused huge panic and many feel with the stock Grubby had on hand and the reaction time in buying overseas that the foam shortage was dealt with very quickly. They felt the media scared people into holding on to old boards longer (raising prices etc.) and the account stockpiled which affected business in the long run.

Also why is everyone so scared to elaborate on the new PU's. Think about it we were a society completely dependent on a monopoly. This doesn't occur very often nowadays. The shapers keep saying the PU is so different yet the media won't run with it. All they run with is molded, EPS, etc....... I've heard many times it's because of ad $'s but I know this is not true!

I have tried all and there's huge differences some you need to try and go thinner to calculate the same float and flex if not your surfing on the water not through it, some are like surfing on a Boston Whaler and they most definitely surf on top the water, etc.....  Maybe you guys should write a PU article instead of trying to cover all. Just a thought!

I will factor all that in but maybe you can illuminate the thing about the "new PU."

We were all raised on Clark. We had nothing else but in the late 60's and early 70's we had Foss and Rogers Foam. Not many people used Walker. I would say 99% of the boards made were Clark. You know all the ways Grubby kept a monopoly for all those years.

So we had PU blanks in which you can only take one or two cuts off the top and bottom - if you went farther then the foam would be too soft. The Clark foam was very soft in the middle. Great for shaping but the boards would dent very quickly, and the long-term strength of the board suffered because of it.

This is why we had the close tolerance blanks. Meantime in Australia you had three big players - Barry Bennett, Don Burford, and Midget Farrelly - and probably 3-4 small outfits all making foam. So in Australia they had competition. Each of these players worked very hard over the years, refining their personal formulas to make a better product.

In the meantime if you imported any of this product you were put on the Clark's "Black List" which meant very slow delivery (bottom of the list) if any delivery at all.  Many of these Australian foam players also export their formulas to blank companies in South Africa and also Brazil. Because of all of this the Australian foam is much different.

It's very white, almost white to blue, much denser cell structure and depending on the manufacturer it's much stronger and harder and again they vary depending on who you buy from. Most of the foams are also much denser in the center of the blank so you can mill or shape much further into the core without getting soft foam. If you use a close tolerance plug then your going to have a very strong and long lasting board.

Bennett even has a new ISO polymer which has increased the core strength by 20%. The blanks also flex totally different. End result, super white foam, blanks much stronger, last longer, and in many cases flex better. These are huge new technological benefits for USA surfers.  Again the shapers are saying it but the media is not passing this on to the consumer.    

What is new about it and how is it different?

Please see above. Also don't forget if we can keep the prices of foam down and closer to Clark's original prices each of us can have a better quiver. Surfers love quivers! My wife always asks me: "how come you have 20-25 boards in the garage?" I respond: "How many times have you seen a golfer with only one club?" In my book more is better, I can have my round boards, fishes, widow makers, traveling boards, LB's etc.......

You mean the MDI-based PU?

No not at all. This whole MDI thing is very interesting. To switch to MDI we need to make blanks for at least a year to see the true effects. Will the board yellow, will it de- lam, will it gas, how does it hold color, how does it flex, etc.... Also which MDI's do you use? There's a difference. We use TDI and it's reacted under strict environmental laws in Australia.

When we get the formula the TDI is all but reacted out. Everyone talks about TDI but there's many other gnarly chemicals being used in the surfboard business, like the gas used to bond polystyrene foam together (EPS). Everyone got on this TDI bandwagon early on. Look what's in resins, better yet neoprene's for wettys.

Surfboard blanks are really hard to make. The pioneers have all sorts of tricks and molds etc are all handmade. I'm really glad about this as it keep the big foam corporations out of our business! Surfboards should be made by surfers! We should all work together to keep it this way as it's not just our profession but our life! 
 
BLAIR FOAM - JEFF STONER - OWNER 

What were you doing when Clark Foam closed?

When Clark Foam closed I was shaping a paddleboard at my shaping room in the Becker Manufacturing building that used to be the Rick Surfboard Manufacturing facility and where my father Rick Stoner used to shape.

During my shaping crisis of a 19 ½' paddleboard my long time surf buddy Beau Brown phoned me with the news of Clark.  I can't tell you how shocked I was.  It was a good time for a break.  Beau by nature is an aggressive entrepreneur and started right away poking me with the idea.  My first reaction was "are you out of your *#!*_ mind?"  It took about 20 minutes on the phone with Beau and I was in.

How and when did you enter into the foam market?

I first started shaping surfboards when I was sixteen under the guidance of Dale Velzy who taught my father and also Phil Becker.  Over the years I was heavily influenced by master shapers Wayne Okamoto and Matt Calvani.  Having a lot of experience shaping foam I knew what I wanted to bring to the market.  Beau and I fumbled and floundered a lot over the past year but the problem was mostly over complicating the process. 

We made our molds like individual Ferraris.  I think that might have been an unnecessary but they sure do work well. Before we started the foam process I spoke to numerous shapers about the characteristics of the foam that was flooding the market from everywhere.  I really think a lot of foam companies were pumping and dumping and taking advantage of our situation. 

I can't believe some of the stuff that came over and a lot of people got burned.  Beau and I have kept a pretty low profile and stayed under the radar the past year to avoid all the hoopla. There was way too much flappin' going on. Some of the foam was too hard, some way to soft, some way too heavy after glassing.  We feel we have a foam now that is shaper-friendly, whiter and stronger - less resistant to scalloping and de-lamination than what our predecessors had.

How has your ramp-up process been? What mistakes have you made and successes have you had? We have just started production and are quite excited about that. We have seen the mistakes other foam manufacturers have made and are poised not to duplicate those mistakes.  Being low-key for a while I think went to our advantage in that regard. 

The shaping world really had a massive coronary and while the polyurethane foam industry here in the States was down, a lot of old technology got a shot of adrenaline.  I think it's starting to shake out well and people will say "I tried that, I did that."

and will return to hand shaped / CNC shaped polyurethane foam because it's quite obvious if you're not just a beginner you're surfing on a surfboard shaped with your favorite shaper's hand print on it.  You just can't duplicate that feel.  So all the plastic bottles coming from Thailand and China, Mexico and wherever are just that.  All about the Ben Franklin.

Anything  to add to the great foam debate?

I just want to give respect to Gordon Clark who provided us with years of fun in the sun and personally thank him for getting me started that day I pulled up with my first truck with only enough money for three blanks.  He didn't take my money and told me I could have as many blanks as I could fit in the back of my truck.  Thanks Gordon for the blanks and for the many trips to Baja with the Husqvarnas. 

ELOVA FOAM - ARIEL FAVOLE - OWNER

www.kekoasurf.com
www.elovafoam.com 
info@elovafoam.com.ar

Elova Foam was founded in 2001 in Argentina initially to satisfy the local demand for blanks in South America. Later on we expanded our frontiers and started to work with selected customers in other countries.

Our blanks are produced using computer controlled injection machines. By using this technology, the chemicals are mixed in exact proportions and the foam density is much more uniform. The end result is a blank with balanced weight and structure, which then translates into a durable surfboard.

Last year (2006) was a year of constant evolution (and revolution) at the factory. We've replaced all of our moulds for a new set of 20 plugs developed in the US by a series of world class shapers, like Tokoro, RAT and Patterson. This allowed us to capitalize years of experience into our product, and therefore offer state of the art shapes.

In the last half of 2006 we focused on our product presentation. We felt we could do more in this area, so we worked hard on the small details to make our blanks the lightest, strongest and the most visually appealing in today's marketplace.

 Our biggest market today is in the US. We have a continued growing demand. Signing an agreement with KEKOA and Sunny Garcia gave us the boost we needed to shift our product to a higher level. KEKOA has been instrumental in getting our blanks to the industry professionals. We are also strong along South America, our home. We have established distributors in Argentina, Uruguay and Chile. We also sell in other countries in the region to selected customers.
 
We have the honor to have Wade Tokoro and Jeff Batisti (RAT) as our head shapers in the US. They have been the testers of every improvement and every experiment. We also work with Steve Wilson, the best shaper in Argentina, with 25 years of experience in the industry. The list of shapers continues to grow with each blank sold. Additional noteworthy shapers include Bob Yinger from Yinger surfboards and Cordell Miller.

As per the surfers, Sunny Garcia is the living proof that our foam is the strongest in the market. He can destroy surfboards just by looking at them!!! He is heavy, pure muscle, and rides like a beast. He is the best tester in the world for a foam maker. 
 
ESKIMO FOAM - Bryant Leach / RON LONG- US Regional Managers

Where were you and your business before Clark closed?

We were a small foam operation on the northern beaches of Sydney servicing specialty accounts that were after performance foam (especially for team) including Chilli and Rusty Australia.

How do you differentiate you product?

Our product was designed with Chilli. We went through numerous iterations to find the best foam to shape and the best foam to ride. It is amazing the number of team riders that now ask for our foam. We were stoked when Andy Irons won his 2004 world title riding our foam. Jordy Smith also recently came second at Sunset and won the World Junior Championship on Eskimo (Adriano de Souza, who came second to Jordy, was also on Eskimo).

What was Eskimo's presence in the international market before Blank Monday?

Eskimo was only supplying to Matt Biolos and Eric Arakawa. This was only container direct business. We were also supplying Soeda Surfboards Japan, the largest surfboard manufacturer in Japan.

Who is doing well in the US, especially the West Coast, at the moment?

We kind of do our own thing, but from what we hear, KingMac is doing well. They seem to have done a great job of being the first guys to really ramp up after Blank Monday to supply the West Coast. Bennett, Surfblanks, US Blanks and Teccel also seem to have the quality and service to survive and maintain reasonable market share.

What is your position in the US foam market and international foam markets now? What is your strategy going forward?

We have built a stock/service business on the West Coast out of our Surf Hardware warehouse in San Diego. We are still doing some container direct business to Hawaii and the West Coast. We are in the process of setting up a stock service warehouse on the East Coast. 

We are confident that our customer base will grow slowly with our ability to provide great service (through our strong distribution network through Surf Hardware - the largest distributor to surfboard manufacturers in the world), the performance quality of the foam and the comfort that our customer can have knowing that we have the capital and distribution network to be in this for the long term.

We want people to buy our foam because it is the best foam for their customers and their team rather than because it is the cheapest. We are continuing to supply Soeda Surfboards Japan which is a huge endorsement for the foam as the Japanese are extremely particular about quality. We have also had strong demand in Australia and Europe, driven predominantly by team riders asking specifically for the foam and our ability to provide stock service.  

BAT Surfboards - Brian Tudor

batshapes@gmail.com 

"When North American board manufacturers were challenged with our major blank provider going out of business, the guys at Surf Hardware Intl. stepped it up and ended up allocating a major source of high quality foam to us. Being a board builder on the East Coast, my company was especially susceptible to the foam shortage, and luckily we weren't forgotten about. Other than one of my main material distributors, Surf Hardware Intl. was the only major industry player to step up and help out."

"Eskimo Foam is a product that is extremely durable and shapes with ease. The only thing I've heard of the other big companies in our industry doing, was their plans to use their resources to build their own boards! OUCH!

To this day my company has used about 300 Eskimo blanks in manufacturing with great rider feedback on the performance and durability side of things. Its nice to be able to rest easy knowing that there at least is one major force in the surf industry looking out for us custom surfboard guys!"  
Big Thanks Surf Hardware and Eskimo for the sick foam, BAT

Orion Surfboards - Greg Geiselman

orionsurfboards@mindspring.com

"Eskimo Foam has been the best foam for high performance surfboards we have used so far. It is has a great flex pattern, easy to shape and feedback from our team riders has been very positive. ".......Greg Geiselman /Orion Surfboards  "So Far I have had some of my best boards shaped out of Eskimo Foam".........Eric Geiselman/Orion Surfboards
 
GLORY FOAM - RICHELLE BROWN

Latitude19@mac.com  

Latitude 19 was founded in Guadalajara, but we relocated to Ensenada, Mexico, in April of 2005 - eight months prior to blank Monday.  We are a company of surfers looking to produce quality surfboards at affordable prices for Mexico, US and Latin America. The idea was born after my family and I had spent two years on our sailboat surfing in Mexico.

After what we saw in both lack of good surfing product as well as crazy amounts of trash, we wanted to develop something for the surfers in Mexico and at the same time lead the way in responsible, clean and safe manufacturing.

Our foam is unique. We use the much safer MDI. Our foam's polyol is sugar based - a renewable resource. The production of our foam does not deplete the Ozone or increase Green House Gases. In fact our chemistry won the EPA's "Stratospheric Ozone Protection Award."

A lot of thought has gone into our manufacturing techniques too. We don't use release papers, for example, which greatly reduces the amount of landfill trash: approximately 35 square feet of paper saved per board. We also use a computer dispensing machine to inject the molds,  not buckets. This ensures a higher quality of foam, and produces virtually zero waste. The small amount of foam we do collect is reused in the manufacturing process.

Our unique production process has taken a lot of time to perfect. We spent a year and a half in development of our foam chemistry and our production methods.  We are making blanks unlike anybody else. Making the greenest blanks possible has not always been the easiest - but we think it has been worth it. We have kept a relatively low profile until recently. 

We intentionally haven't issued press releases. It was important to us not to make promises we were unable to keep, even if it meant passing up a quick buck during the hysteria. The greatest challenge we now face is one of education. As with any new product, we must get the word out to both shapers and consumers that there are choices.

Choices that can make a difference to our planet. We believe once they see and surf our product the decision is easy.  Glory Foam is not only a green blank but a great blank as well.  
 
HOMEBLOWN BLANKS - FROM NED MCMAHON - General Manager 
 
www.FoamTechnologies.com

I am GM of Homeblown - an MDI blank manufacturer here in Sorrento Valley near La Jolla, CA. I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to meet you at ASR. We also manufacture a plant-based polyol/MDI blank called Biofoam. We have been making MDI Surfblanks in the UK since 1988 and we also have a plant in Jeffrey's Bay.

As you know the market here is the most critical and we have made adjustments to the MDI formulation that now our foam lighter, whiter, and easier to shape than anything that ever came out of the UK. These results can be verified by Green Valley Mill which did some independent tests and found our foam finished out the lightest and whitest of all tested.
 
We don't have the deep pockets to give tons of foam away but we have slowly been getting more of the market each month through providing at superior product. The nature of MDI is a much finer cell structure - often rated at 1000 times finer that TDI. MDI is also as much as 10 times more waterproof than TDI with compressive strength 10-25% better than TDI.
 
We believe that we need to be a real part of the industry so we are in San Diego. We provide health care for all our employees. We are in compliance with all EPA regulations. MDI is safer for both the environment as well as our employees. We are members of both SIMA and 1% for the Planet. We have only been producing about 50 blanks a day with a capacity of about 200 per day but we are only making to our order level.

There is still plenty of foam around produced locally, in Mexico, and coming in from overseas. TDI is being legislated out of the US and is a known carcinogen so TDI as an alternative won't be around forever - I don't know when it will be cutoff but it is on its way out.
 
As for our customers, we have been selling foam to Yater, Lost, Bing, Channel Islands, Stickman, Hansen, Surfline Hawaii, Hollingsworth, Diercks,  and more. Although our foam is still a bit more difficult to shape than TDI, it is not any more difficult than EPS. The overall feedback in performance is superior durability and great feel (flex and memory) in the water. We also have excellent consistency due our machine poured, CNC controlled system.
 
As an environmentally oriented company we believe our Biofoam blank is truly a step in the right direction. While it is still not 100%, we are currently making Biofoam with nearly 50% of the mix from sustainable agri-based product. We also don't believe in shipping foam in container around the planet. Shipping foam (mostly air) is far from green and the carbon footprint to do so is huge.

While we have a clean shop and do our best to recycle etc., we still fly to trade shows and we still drive a gas hungry box van so we also pay into carbon offset programs for these things to minimize our negative impact. As surfers we must walk the walk and not just talk the talk of doing our part to keep the ocean and beaches clean. It the greater scheme of things it is a small bit but collectively we can have a real impact.

JUST FOAM High Performance Foam - SCOTT SAUNDERS

www.justfoamblanks.com
scott@justfoamblanks.com

Where were you and your business before Clark closed?

Besides Walker we were the only USA manufacturer in existence. We were delivering 25 blanks a day in a garage in Elsinore with four employees. We began as a ministry to employ rehab graduates. I had no idea Clark would shut down.

How quickly did you jump into the foam business and ramp up after Clark closed?

I was already in the foam business (see above answer) we added 16 employees and 17000 square feet in two months. We were producing 150 blanks a day by June.

How hard was the ramp up, and what was unique about the way you did it?

I was unprepared as I had no history in manufacturing. However, I hired intelligent managers and overcame the obstacles which faced us. We built from scratch more advanced saws, molds and gluing tables which enabled us to produce a better product than Clark with more efficiency. After pouring a bad batch of foam in June we lost 80% of our customers, but by December we had 90% of those customers back.

What is your position in the foam market now? Who is using you, who isn't and who do you want to align yourself going?

I am not really sure what our position is in the foam market, no one truly knows their position either (although they may lie about it). Just Foam currently delivers foam to Channel Islands, Rusty, Patterson, Lost, Teqoph, Byrne, Takayama (both Guy and Donald), Plus One, Cordell, Bing, Harbour, Chemistry, Roberts, Anderson, Zippy, Cole, Midget Smith, Kaysen and many of the smaller shapers from Santa Barbara to San Diego.

Every North American CT rider who rides a US shaper's board is currently riding Just Foam for their urethane boards and many for their epoxy boards as well.

Who is going to make it, in the long run?

Not sure I understand the question? I believe Just Foam will make it because we have a superior product at a great price without a bad blank in more than 6 months, great delivery schedule and a fantastic reputation. We have our own wood mill, custom longboard stringers, all straight and glued up clean. I believe you have to manufacture in the US to maintain quality, we'll see as the summer  approaches.
 
KING MAC FOAM - SETH BISHOP - San Diego Distributor for KingMac

www.kingmacfoam.com

Right after Clark Foam shut down, a group of investors from San Diego began the process of acquiring the rights to "X-tra Foam" of South Africa, from Rod McDonald. Graham King from "King Foam," Australia, was also contacted. Rod and Graham had worked together for many years and decided to lend their 45+ years of experience to the project.

At the conclusion of January 2006 everything was in place, and KingMac Foam was begun. The name "KingMac" is derived from the last names of the original formulators, Graham and Rod. KingMac Foam, as either "X-tra" or "King Foam" has been surfed and used by pros for 30 years.
 
Soon after, a factory was constructed from the ground up, in Tijuana B.C. KingMac had their first blanks at the end of May 2006. By that time KingMac Foam already had a distribution network in place, here in San Diego (Caliber45) and Oceanside (The RoughHouse). We were able to get our limited amount of product out to as many customers as possible. It was very well received. Now KingMac foam can be found in almost every shop in Southern California.
 
Our first 17 plugs were ideal for machine cutting due to their thickness and overall volume. Many machine shops soon began to use KingMac extensively. We are able to adjust the thickness of our molds to also increase versatility. Within the last 3 months we have begun to offer close tolerance blanks as well.

We are in the process of rolling out a new line of close tolerance shortboard blanks that were designed by Chris Borst and Steve Boysen. With good results. We now offer over 55 different blanks. KingMac just introduced their 12.5JB Stand-UP paddle blank. We believe it is the first poly blank of that style on the market.

We were one of the first new Polyurethane Foam manufacturers to offer multiple densities (we have 6). In September 2006, KingMac began to ship globally. KingMac foam is now available, regularly, in Japan, England, Puerto Rico, Hawaii, and the Eastern United States.
 
Our goal with KingMac Foam is to make sure our customers have access, and confidence in our product. Any one who has used KingMac with any regularity knows we are not without problems. When that has been the case, it is important that we aggressively work to solve the problems.

Systems are changed, tools are rebuilt, everything that can be done is done. Graham and Rod are always available and at the factory in Mexico to help, and oversee the process. We have received great feed back and take every complaint seriously. We want our product, and relationship with our customers  to be the best possible. We want our customers to succeed.
 
MARKO FOAM PRODUCTS - CLAYTON PETERSON - Co-owner / manager

www.markofoam.com
tpeterson@markofoam.com

Marko Foam was started in a Quonset hut in Costa Mesa California in 1961 by  Don and Sally Peterson. With 3 kids in tow, Don and Sally pursued the foam industry and grew Marko into a successful business that is still family owned and operated today.

Marko is now managed by the second generation of Petersons. Their two sons Ty and Clay and daughter Deb have grown up surfing and have long been involved with the company. Through the years we have focused Marko's direction towards testing alternative surfboard materials, some of which ended up performing better than current materials and can be produced in our factories using a clean, compression-molded steam manufacturing process.

The Petersons have been long time Newport Beach residents and have grown up embracing the surf culture and industry start-ups that spawned in the Southern California area over the years. Ty and Clay now have beach groms of their own and have made a clear company goal to offer a more environmentally sound surfboard blank into the market.

Marko's 45 years of manufacturing has long proven that the EPS materials used in our molding process do not put our employees or customers in any harm. Most beaded foam is Recyclable. EPS is 100% recyclable. Marko installed state of the art recycling systems in the eighties and has been actively recycling  EPS and other beaded materials ever since.

As lifelong Beach natives, the Petersons' bring sensitivity to the manufacturing process and a passion for surfing; that translates to a more environmentally friendly made board entering the water today. Marko has long been involved with shapers and idea guys interested in testing alternative, cleaner, surfboard materials and creating the next viable surfboard.

We understands the mindset needed to serve the surfboard manufacturing community and are committed to helping new customers make a rapid transition to using alternative materials for the next generation of surfboards. In the late 60's and early 70's, Don and Sally helped pioneer flotation, boating and water sports applications using EPS foam..

For decades Marko has manufactured all types of Surfboards & shaped blanks for water sports.  Some serious attempts and some that were merely for learning. Our First surfboard project was with Randy French in the seventies. It was a little retro foamy, 5'6 swallow tail, that's actually still super fun to surf, if you get the fins set right.  

Marko's Influence: Marko has aligned themselves with long time customer and skilled composite board Maker, Jim Richardson of Surflight Hawaii and top board craftsmen Jeff Johnston of Shapes Hawaii. They have created some of the blank plugs in the line and over the past few years have perfected the application of the latest Epoxy materials on the superfused Marko blanks.

They have also been responsible for testing the many sample materials and ultimately the finished product in Hawaiian waters. There are very detailed in their board building  approach and have studied the various ways an Epoxy board can be constructed, for high performance surfing, in this new era of flex control.

In the past year we have also been working extensively with Bill Riedel of Stretch boards  on tuning in specific foam densities, and overall blank improvements. With Stretches knowledge & feedback along with many others, we have been able to tune in our process to supply a consistent blank.

Over the past year Marko has also worked closely with Matt Biolos. We explored the foam and then went right to parabolic world. Marko now offers a full line of Parabolic blank outlines provided by Matt Biolos and we have fulfilled the many requests for a consistent shapeable parabolic blank in the market. This will help translate Marko's name into the shop racks and into the water.

"Foam is a moving living thing in many ways.  Experience is the key to manufacturing it   consistently." Said Marko Foam pioneer, Don Peterson.  Marko specializes in manufacturing all beaded foam materials: EPS/EPE/EPP/ARCEL.  We have two manufacturing/distribution facilities in California, one in Salt Lake City, Utah   and one in Baja Mexico.

Marko Corona houses a full Machine shop with CNC /CAD capabilities and specializes in tool and mold making. We have applied our 45 years of manufacturing knowledge and know-how to our current EPS blank line and have tested dozens of bead formulations in the search for the crucial       properties needed for surfboard use and construction.

Using our automated compression molding  process, we can achieve that high level of bead fusion needed to draw-out the positive properties of EPS foam,(lightweight, strong and minimal water absorption rate) Pressure Molding also allows us to thoroughly and evenly fuse the blank throughout, for ease of shaping by CNC or by the hand craftsman.

Marko can achieve a wide variety of foam densities and can control blank weights in small increments to get the right blank for the shaper's needs. From super featherweight all the way to the heavy "Tow blank" densities. 
 
M10 SURFBOARDS - GEOFF RASHE - Owner

www.m10surfboards.com 
geoff@m10surfboards.com 

I was shaping polyurethane for 15 years, maybe 9,000 or 10,000 boards, before EPS. I switched in 2004 (??) as a means to make a better board and to differentiate my product in a market flooded with PU's. It was definitely risky at first, because nobody knew what it was. PU and Tuflite were all people knew about, and it was a real chore to educate my customers about what I was doing.

We made shitty boards for about a month, then we got the hang of it, but still had problems up until recently. EPS was great at first, because I raised my price and lowered my cost. The margin kicked ass over polyester, but it was a ton of work to manage and I was over it.
 
As far as my business goes, going all EPS has been a good move, and other reputable guys like Rusty getting into it has legitimized me. If its true, it's amazing that Rusty has been able to get 70% of his boards made this way.

I'd bet that his volume took a big hit for 06 after the Clark deal, so 70% probably wasn't the same amount of boards as the year before. I think a lot of shops have seen the handwriting on the wall, sucked it up, and started doing epoxy. Since Clark went down, I almost never have to explain what EPS/epoxy is.

Now I have to explain my new variation, which has resolved the problems my competitors are freshly dealing with. I firmly believe that EPS/epoxy is the best alternative for high performance surfboards. The only problem is that they are so much more work than polyester.

I think that Clark foam kept the surfboard industry as we knew it for a long time (custom made, cottage biz, domestic, etc.). Now EPS/epoxy can do the same, because they have durability that rivals molded imports, and that custom one-offability that individual board-builders can offer on a personal basis.

It's the ultimate combo because it has the advantages of sandwich epoxy (durability) and PU (performance), and lacks their disadvantages: poor performance and fragility, respectively.

The only downside after Clark was that I raised my price and gave fat raises to my crew, which reduced my sales and profitability. I got more visibility, but I wound up making a good bit less money in 06 than in 05. A lot of my margin slipped too when I started buying blanks instead of hotwiring and gluing up myself. You really have to watch your expenses in this business.

Now I am making my stuff in Brazil, where I have a better product and fewer headaches, at a reasonable price (even if it is double what a Chinese board costs). 
 
OZ FOAM

Where were you and your business before Clark closed?

I was part of a business that imported surfboards (DHD, Simon Anderson, Pipedream) surfboards from Australia.

How quickly did you jump into the foam business and ramp up after Clark closed?

 I spun out a separate company OZ Foam a few weeks after Clark closed down to help out local shapers so they would have a steady supply of foam.

How hard was the ramp up, and what was unique about the way you did it? 

My foam came from a tried and true supplier BASE.  It is the same foam that top shapers in Australia use.  However, the blanks I import are different that what Clark was able to produce: different rockers, different density etc.  It was a tough sell to get shapers to try different blanks. What's more, lots of crummy product hit the market and shapers were wary.

What is your position in the foam market now? Who is using you, who isn't and who do you want to align yourself with?

Most of my foam is used by independent shapers around the country.  Most of my foam is sold through a local distributor called FoamEZ. It is a great relationship!

Who is going to make it, in the long run? 

I think the local production of foam will win out.  Even with exchange rates and an established factory it is costly to ship half way across the world.
 
PACIFICA FOAM/GREEN VALLEY MILL - JOHN DAHL - Co-owner

What were you doing when Clark Foam closed?
 
I was standing in front of Target and called my friend in Cabo to talk about blowing foam in Mexico.

How did you enter into the foam market?
 
Bill Bahne and myself along with a few investors formed Pacifica Foam and Green Valley Mill.

How hard was the ramp up and what mistakes did you make?
 
The wood mill was easy.  We bought Clark's complete mill, his 5,000 rocker templates along with his wood inventory and hired nine of his expert mill guys.  Green Valley Mill is the first business of its kind ever.  

After the market price for blanks dropped we put our Pacifica foam project on hold and began to distribute blanks for the best foams on the market.  Brands like Rhyno Brazil, Homeblown, Bennett USA, Eskimo and Surf Blanks US.
 
Describe the product you are producing and what makes it unique/desirable/essential.
 
Custom wood stringers, t-bands, off-set stringers as well as the new parabolics.

Where are you in the market now, and where do you see the market going?
 
We're the number one producer of stringer blanks, cut rockers and glue-ups.  We see this year getting back on historical track for 1,000 blanks a day.  Green Valley Mill is setup to be involved with more than 1/3 of those sales.
 
Which companies are going to make it and which aren't?

Best foam wins but manufacturers and shapers will make that decision on an individual basis.  Rhyno with 20 years behind them will definitely be a front runner.
 
Anything else you want to say about how the closure of Clark effected your business is appreciated?
 
Clark's closing opened a door to new opportunities for us and everyone at the manufacturing level.  
  
SAFARI FOAM CO - ROD STAINTON - Owner

www.safarifoam.co.za
rod@safarifoam.co.za

Where were you and your business before Clark closed? 

We are based in Durban, South Africa. We have been blowing PU foam since the late 1960's primarily for the South Africa market, but also servicing parts of Europe.

How quickly did you jump into the foam business and ramp up after Clark closed?

We expanded the factory substantially between December 2005 and May 2006

How hard was the ramp up, and what was unique about the way you did it?

It has been a very tough period.  We tried to assist too many customers in the early phases, and pushed our production too hard. This caused a number of problems. Things only started to settle down in about July last year as it took time for new staff to settle in and for us to get all the new equipment running smoothly.

What is your position in the foam market now? Who is using you, who isn't and who do you want to align yourself going?

We supply into most of the major markets in the world. We have our own depots / distribution centres in Costa Mesa, (California, USA) , Newquay (UK) and Durban (South Africa). We also have dealers on the East Coast of USA, Hawaii, certain countries in S. America, Japan, and some of the European countries.

Who is going to make it, in the long run?

Everybody expects premium quality now. And pricing has got very competitive as there is excess production capacity in the market now. It is going to be down to Service and Relationships, Quality and Price. 
 
SURFLIGHT HAWAII

www.surflight.com
jim@surflight.com

What were you doing when Clark Foam closed?

We started experimenting with pressure molded EPS foam in December of 2004.  We were working with Marko Foam and we had a mold for our Surflight EPP project that we used to make some EPS blanks.  By Spring of 2005 we had built some extremely light EPS/epoxy boards that were holding up pretty well and seemed promising. 

I was skeptical at first, given the history of EPS foam--comes apart inside, delaminates, sucks water, hard to shape, hard to glass, sucks resin, etc.  But the pressure-molded material was vastly superior. Summer and Fall of 2005 we were working with some of the top North Shore shapers building boards for pros and the feedback was very positive. 

Everyone liked the feel of the boards, springy and lively, and the weight was unbeatable.  We could shave over a pound off the lightest shortboards in PU/polyester and have a stronger board.  For surfing in small, less powerful, waves, EPS/epoxy seemed clearly superior.  So we decided to go into the blank business with Marko and began working on a few mold shapes. 

There was a small but substantial EPS/epoxy market out there and we thought we could get a big chunk of that with better foam.  Then Clark shut down and we saw an opportunity to grow EPS/epoxy into a larger part of the market much faster.

When did you enter into the surfboard foam business?

We started selling pressure molded EPS blanks in Hawaii in Summer of 2005.

How difficult was the tooling and ramping up and getting to know the market?

We have been making boards for long enough to know the market pretty well.  Shapers are the key to getting your blank into the market and they are pretty fussy about their blanks.  It takes a lot of effort to keep them happy. Jeff Johnston and I have a lot of years behind us as shapers so we have pretty good insight into what keeps shapers happy. 

Beyond that, Jeff is also an expert glasser and knows what it takes to build a light and strong high quality board.  A shaper may like a particular foam because it shapes nicely and looks good finished.  But the glassers will tell you that they can't get a light and strong board out of it.  We work with Marko to put all of that together.

Ramping up any kind of manufacturing is a challenge.  I will let the Marko guys tell you about the blank making part of the business.  From our perspective, a big part of the ramp up has been getting epoxy glassing going.  After about two years, we are able to produce a strong and light board that looks as good as a polyester board. 

The quality coming out of other shops is all over the map.  That has definitely slowed the growth of EPS/epoxy.  As with anything new, you have to deal with problems and figure out how to do it.  We were committed and determined because we believe in the product.  So we learned.  Other shops have not always been so committed.  Some won't even try it. 

What mistakes did you make and what successes did you have?

The surfboard industry is more open to new ideas now than any time in my experience of over 35 years.  That is exciting.  Still, I think we underestimated the resistance to learning new materials and processes.  As PU became widely available, the board makers who hadn't tried EPS/epoxy or who were just dabbling with it, have slipped back into the old tried and true ways. 

Our success has been with the board builders who gave EPS/epoxy a good try. They have stuck with it and see it as a growing part of their business.  The top pros keep coming back for more and the average surfers are starting to see the boards and take interest. 

Where are you in the market now? Who is using you and who do you want to be selling to?

I will speak to the Hawaii market.  We sell blanks to most of the top Hawaii board makers.  I hate to make a list because I will leave out important customers.  Some of these are mainly building EPS/epoxy boards for their riders, that's where it has to start. 

Some have a growing number of custom orders for EPS/epoxy.  And some are beginning to put them in retail stores.  They have been well received in Japan.  We want to see all of these continue to grow.

Where do you see this all going? Who will make it and who will fade?

Clearly there are too many companies in the PU blank business.  Most of those will disappear as the economics of the business grind them down.  But there will be a number of survivors, not just one.  And that is good for the industry.

Clark was an exceptional monopolist in that he provided good service and low prices.  But innovation was not what it should have been.  PU technology is pretty much tapped out, but it is possible to make better PU foam than Clark did, as we now see. 

Looking ahead, I think sticking with PU/polyester technology will be bad for the industry.  I believe that innovation is key to survival of the surfboard industry as we know it.  If it's only about efficient and competent execution of known processes, that can be done far better and cheaper offshore in large factories.  That is happening and its growing. 

Alternative materials, like EPS/epoxy, hold much greater promise for innovation in the surfboard industry.  People are realizing that alternative materials and structures have better strength at lighter weight, better flex characteristics, and other advantages.  With new materials and structures, small surfboard companies can innovate something to keep their customers interested. 

It's not just about the shape, its the whole construction that gives the board its performance and durability, the things surfers care about.  Surfers are properly skeptical of all of this new stuff, but a lot of it is working and the momentum is building.  And that will be a good thing for surfing and for the surfboard industry.

TECCEL SURFBLANKS - FERNANDO CAMARA

www.surfteccell.com.br
contato@surfteccell.com.br 

Our headquarters are in Recife - northeast Brazil - and we have been  making foam blanks for nearly 15 years. Since the very beginning we have a deal with Surfblanks Australia - it means we share the same raw materials and know how.

Midget Farrellly has designed a state of the art superwhite phenolic formula considered a more consistent and resilient foam -a very white, long lasting product  that thinks of surfers first.

Surfblanks Australia also has 2 more licensees overseas - Surfblanks South Africa which is prior to us and recently Surfblanks America. We believe the American market to be so big that there's not really a competition among Surfblanks makers.

Before Clark shut down our focus was mostly the Brazilian market where we believe we are #1 among most shapers. We also had some clients overseas but after Clark closed we now have almost twice enquiries of what it used to be and are exporting to all continents.

Teccel - Surfblanks Brazil has established a distribution both on east and west coasts of USA, and is now working on a more customized fast service what we believe to be what most Americans are looking for. We are carrying 30 different plugs, on 7 different densities, at least 3 different basic rockers per plug.

Among our American clients, to name a few, are Sharp Eye, Xanadu, Stewart, CI, Surf Prescriptions, Ricky Carrol and Mike Wisnett.

US BLANKS - JEFF HOLTBY

www.usblanks.com
info@usblanks.com

How many of the Clark Foam people started up US Blanks?

Kim Thress and I started up US Blanks along with several of the key employees from Clark Foam whom we felt would be vital in building our company back up to a successful level.

How long were you and Kim Thress with Clark, what were your roles there and what experience did you bring to US Blanks. Did you take on additional duties in starting up a new company?

Kim Thress was with the company for 27 years and was the General Manager.  I was with the company for 14 years and was in management as well.  Now at US Blanks we have certainly taken on additional duties and responsibilities.  As owners, it comes with the territory, but it was something we were prepared to do.

Was Grubby's announcement as much as surprise to the employees at Clark as it was to the rest of the world?

When we were all told on that Monday that Clark Foam was shutting down it was very shocking to say the least.  It was as much a surprise to us as it was to everyone else.  Contrary to what some might think nobody had any inside knowledge that this was coming.

Did you like Gordon Clark?

I have a tremendous amount of respect Gordon Clark.  He did more positive things for the industry than people will ever realize. He was an incredible teacher so we were fortunate enough to learn from the best.  We wouldn't be where we are today if it wasn't for him. 

Unfortunately it seems that the public has a different opinion about him, but that's because they didn't know him and people like to draw their own conclusions.  I have not spoken with Gordon since.  After witnessing what he went through this year, I'm going to respect his privacy.

If you can, describe the ramp up process at US Blanks. Who were the leaders?  Where did the money come from? What aspects of Clark Foam were adopted by US Blanks and what were left behind?

The closing of Clark Foam immediately opened up the market to the rest of the world.  In the following months every blank manufacturer in the world was scrambling to fill the void left behind.  As a result, several of the foreign manufacturers have set up operations either in the US or Mexico to try and get their share of the market. 

Investors also saw it as an opportunity to get in and make some money which resulted in several new start-up companies attempting to manufacture foam as well.  What several of these companies did not realize is that this is a really tough business and it's not as simple as everyone thinks.  As a result, several of the new companies have not survived and I'm sure that's not the end of it. 

I think a year from now we'll see the number of manufacturers down to a more realistic level.  The market simply isn't big enough to support so many and the profit margins aren't as high as everyone thinks.

Can you list the companies that have already come and gone?

All I know is that there were names of several companies we heard about at the beginning of the year and I haven't heard of them since.  If you look on the Internet there has been a lot of manufacturing equipment for sale over the last few months.

Do you have an opinion on how many companies it will take to satisfy the market and do you have an opinion on which companies are likely to last?

Ultimately the market will dictate how many companies will be required to satisfy the demand.  Our factory is set up to produce approximately the same volume that Clark Foam produced, but I doubt one single company will ever hold that large of the market share again. 

People will not put all their eggs in one basket anymore in light of what happened a year ago.  Of course our goal is to be the #1 supplier in the market, but when the dust settles there will probably end up being 3 to 4 suppliers.

Clark Foam undeniably had the best business model for blank manufacturing in the world.  We are definitely trying to incorporate most of those same practices with US Blanks - I think all of the other manufacturers try to use Clark Foam as a bench mark as well. 

Our goal is to make US Blanks a "partnership" with our customers - we want our customers to know and feel that they are very important to us and that we will do whatever we can to make them feel comfortable.  This year they have already had to deal with too many quality issues, inconsistent product, delivery problems and broken promises.

Our customers have enough to worry about when running their daily business and they shouldn't have to worry about their foam - it's our goal to eliminate that worry and be the best supplier possible. From working with Walker I know that the blank business is a stinky, sticky business. It is slow, because of the stringers.

Has US Blanks made any innovations to speed it up and make it less toxic? 

Our stringer milling and gluing operation is state of the art and is set up for mass production.  We are constantly testing new products including more environmentally safe adhesives which are an important direction we feel the industry needs to take.

Our number one concern is worker and environmental safety.  We are using state of the art ventilation systems and our material handling and production procedures are very strict.  Employee safety, proper training and education will always be our top priority.  We have also made major changes to our production methods in that we no longer have to directly process or handle TDI in its raw state.

 I feel it is also important for our customers (and the general public) to know that once molded, our foam is 100% reacted and becomes an inert urea which poses no health or environmental concerns.

How big is your facility and was it all made from scratch?

Our factory is 20,000 sq. ft. and we rebuilt everything from the ground up.  The entire facility was built around the premise of efficiency, maximum production and workflow.  We couldn't be happier with the way it turned out and everything is working as anticipated.     

How long after Blank Monday did you produce the first blank?

US Blanks officially started production the last week of August.  It took us a little longer than originally anticipated to get into production, but it was extremely important to us to make sure all our permits and approvals were in order before doing so.  This is a very serious venture and we plan on being here for a long time.

What is your production up to now, and how many different flavors do you have?

We have the capability to run our factory to fill the demand.  We have 36 different sizes in our current catalog and will continue to add more as needed.  We also offer 6 different foam densities and expect to expand that in the future as well.  Our custom milling and gluing operation gives us the ability to customize any of our blank sizes to meet our customer's needs. 

Our wide selection of different woods such as Bass, Dark Cedar, Balsa and Plywood provides our customers' unlimited options including multi's, t-bands, model-A's, wedges, etc.  Custom rocker options are also unlimited as we have the capabilities to consistently produce whatever the customer requires.

In the coming months we will also be introducing our line of 'Superfused' Molded EPS foam blanks as this has become a valid option for board manufacturing.  We have been in the developmental stages of EPS for the better part of a year and now feel that we have a product that will set the new standard in the EPS market.
 
WALKER FOAM - MARTIN NICOULIN - Director of Sales and Marketing

www.walkerfoam.com
walkerfoaminc@cs.com

Where were you when Clark Foam folded?
 
Warvel Products, Inc. located in Linwood, NC. (We've been) providing Flexible urethane molded foam, rigid structural foam and wood bending/forming
component products to the sporting goods, commercial furniture and other industries for over thirty years. We had the capacity and technology to add
a surf line and thought we could develop a tough MDI blank for the industry.
 
When did you enter into the surfboard foam market?
 
In February 2006, after reading about Clark Foam's demise, due to our thirty years of experience in MDI foam and wood manufacturing, Warvel knew our company had the technical knowledge and resources to enter this market.
 
How expensive, difficult, frustrating, rewarding was the ramp-up process?
 
Learning the surf industry was exciting and the ramp up process was challenging. Over the past year, Warvel worked closely with our chemical supplier partners to develop one of the most consistent and durable MDI foams on the market.
 
What sort of success are you having?
 
The product has been well received in the market by the shapers and board manufacturers we have contacted.  We are consistently working on advanced foam formulations to reduce the weight. We added whiteners and UV inhibitors to help brighten and reduce discoloration in the foam.  Warvel is also manufacturing a special high performance surf board blank designed by Greg Loehr called WMD for "Warvel Multi- Density."

WMD incorporates an EPS core with MDI foam rails with two parabolic basswood stringers to create one of the lightest weight, high performance boards available. 
 
What is different about your product: chemically, environmentally, supply, etc?
 
The Surf Industry seems to be learning about the advantages of MDI. Warvel learned that years ago and changed to environmentally-safe formulas. No masks or respirators are required in the manufacturing and shaping process with our formula. We listened to shapers, heard what they wanted in a good core and developed the formula accordingly.
 
Where is the market going, and who will make it in the long run? 
 
Warvel feels the companies who have the resources to continue to invest money in research & development and explore different materials to push the envelope in alternative technologies for the surf industry will ultimately succeed. 
 
WNC - JAVIER HUARCAYA - Owner

www.epoxysurfboards.com
javier@epoxysurfboards.com

In the ocean you need a board that will not absorb water at all when it dings, and a glassing system that is environmentally friendly. XTR is a registered trade mark for a foam and glassing process that has been delivering those things since the early 1990s.

Our business started in 1991 glassing only epoxy surfboards with extruded polystyrene foam (XPS is the technical name). Before 1991 we where using EPS - expanded polystyrene foam - but we stopped using that due to the fact that XPS closed cell is the only foam that has zero water absorption. We named the blank XTR in 1998.

Before Clark closed its doors we sold blanks and glassed blanks for Channel Islands, Lost, Doc, Timmy Patterson, Linden, Dick Brewer, and other top brands only. We were doing about 50 finish boards a week on XTR.

When Clark closed it doors we received several requests to sell more foam due to the desperation of mainly small companies. We just increased the foam production with the same top shapers. We added more workers to make more blanks and we went from 50 a week to 100 a week. We just added more workers and doubled shifts. We did not sell blanks to new companies because we were already working with the top shapers around Southern California.

The unique aspect of XTR is that is a high-end custom epoxy surfboard and the only blank that will not absorb water. It's a unique concept because we will train any company that wants to use our Thermovent Technology. It is not available to the public everywhere.
 
Since we have to glass all the blanks we sell, we are allowing shapers around the world to purchase a license from us. We have licenses in Hawaii, Peru, Australia, Southern California and more are coming. The license includes our Patented Technology and the exclusive rights to use our technology and the XTR brand in all surfboards.

In the long run we will be doing what we already started 16 years ago: more XTR epoxy surfboards and more licenses around the world.  oPINIONS FROM SURFBOARD MANUFACTURERS AND  END USERS: There is some good stuff in there but you may or may not want to use it.

GLOBAL SURF FACTORY - HAWAII SURF FACTORY - PETER THORNE

www.globalsurffactory.com
www.hawaiisurffactory.com

Hawaii Surf Factory - located just above the North Shore in Wahiawa - manufactures between 65 to 80 boards a week…depending on the surf. Global Surf Factory in China manufactures 200 to 250 boards a week. We have seen all kinds of foam in the last year, good, bad and bizarre.  There are piles of untouched blanks in warehouses and dumpsters all over the island. 

We have seen blanks fall apart, shrink, turn dark yellow and blow gas like a fat man after a burrito eating contest.  Some of the crooked, off center stringers we have seen are still the punchlines in jokes around the factory.  On the bright side, the foam we have now is better than Clark and we have a competitive market that not only offers better prices but more innovation and stronger, lighter formulas.  The stand-out blanks have come from KingMac Foam and US Blanks.

The majority of the blanks coming through our factory right now are from KingMac. The original molds from KingMac Foam were designed as machine loads because that is what the majority of shapers are using these days.  KingMac added blanks to their product line that are closer tolerance and better suited for hand shaping.

US Blanks are close tolerance blanks that are easier to hand shape.  Their store in Wahiawa makes it convenient shapers to pick up what they need just for that day. Epoxy and EPS have increased since Clark closed but we have not seen the explosion most people forecast.  Hand laminated XTR blanks and Marko blanks have been popular.

A high density EPS from Dragon Foam has also shown great results.  One and two pound EPS have been the material of choice for the stand up paddle boards.

Global Surf Factory (China) has been importing blanks from Surfblanks Australia, Xtra Foam and, for our premium boards, we import from KingMac Foam.  Inside of China we have been purchasing Eskimo Foam, Pure Cell Technologies and EPS blanks from Dragon Foam.  Imported blanks cost about 30% more and add significantly to the lead time.  Most of the manufacturing is moving to China, so the companies that position themselves there are insuring their longevity.

We haven't seen anything revolutionary.  What we have finally seen is a free market system at work within the blank industry.  The shapers are benefiting from lower prices and better formulas that are improving every day.  The parabolic stringers are new and  time will tell if it has practical applications or if it's just a show piece. The companies that will dominate the market are KingMac and US Blanks.

ROBERT AUGUST SURFBOARDS AND SURF TECH - SAM AUGUST

Bennett foam. We tried others but went with Bennett for quality and service. There are other good foam companies as well that we may use periodically.  US Blanks is one.  We are producing 40-80 boards in a week as the season dictates  Supply is better, and sales are stronger as well.Surfboards are easily obtained by retail and consumers.

Pricing is the same across the board as when Clark went down. The state of the surfboard industry is growing at rates faster than I would have ever imagined. Surf Tech was the first real company to reproduce the existing best shapes in the world with its technology of Tuflite, Wood veneer finished epoxy and now TL2. The door for a dozen other new technologies was at that time opened up....
 
KB SURFBOARDS - KYLE BERNHARDT

I am a small time guy, a one man show, shape thru shine, which allows me time to complete anywhere from two to five boards a week. I've been using: Walker, Burford, Bennett, King Mac, and U.S. Blanks.  All except US (pretty much Clark foam), are better than Clark foam.  Lighter, more dense, or just easier to shape.  Clark had near flawless delivery, that is, their service is what really made Clark's foam good.  It was there when you needed it, 95% of the time.

Now  we have several different distributors all over the island.  Some with the capacity to deliver and some not. But now that we've been force to explore other options I think nearly all the other foam was/is better. 

The Aussie foam is great.  And most of the newcomers have improved on the old Clark foam standard except for one and I am so pissed at those other f______ who sold me and everyone else such s___ I've blocked their name from my memory.  I will remember their name and I hope you can print it because that was just flat wrong.  (love to tell you the whole story , if I typed it I still be here tomorrow with lap-top burns).
 
In short the difference is, the foam is better, but at this point you have to make a few calls, drive across the island, and possibly even wait a few weeks to get what you need.
 
LOST SURFBOARDS - MATT BIOLOS

What kind of foam is coming through your factory, what is working best for which applications, do you see anything revolutionary coming through?

We have been using Eskimo for our Australian-licensed brands (M. Chilli). I really like Surfblanks (Midget Farrelly's foam) from either the South African or the Ensenada factory. Starting to use more and more now of other domestic foams - an even mix of Just Foam, Bennett and a lot of King Mac as well. We use Marko brand EPS exclusively and are surely the largest maker of extruded XTR blanks from Javier at Epoxy Pro.

The team really likes the Marko EPS and the Surfblanks SA as well as the Eskimo Foam, so far. None, I repeat none, are as consistent as Clark but most can be better than Clark was at times.

How many boards do you produce in a week, a month and a year?

Come on now….

Who do you think will survive, and who will drop out?

I think there will be 4 domestic (including Mex) PU blank suppliers in the USA when this settles, and still a myriad of EPS suppliers.

Is the supply of foam and production and sales of surfboards better or worse than it was a year ago?

Way better than a year go. One year ago there was nothing but leftover Clark, a few Just Foam and Walkers (not enough worth noting) and my containers of Eskimo in the whole country.

At the retail level, how has the closure of Clark Foam made things better or worse?

It's been a lot of work for us, but we have made ourselves so much better as a brand because of it. Clark was one of my idols, but the situation made me a better board builder in every way. We now have pretty much mastered EPS boards, understand epoxies and have made them a viable performance product. We have developed more and better ways to build XTR boards. We now offer boards with parabolic stringers and feature a very diverse, yet well-researched array of constructions for our customers. I think the Quad Fad is kinda helping this resilient industry save itself.

Are surfboards harder to get, easier?

Too easy, too many, too much crap.

Are they less or more expensive?

Both!

Is the array of choices confusing consumers?

Absolutely.

Any and all comments on the state of the surfboard industry appreciated.

It's in a bit of chaos. No one really knows what to think. It's stronger here on the West Coast than in Florida and the East. But it's definitely getting more narrow and deep for a high-end brand. We are partnering with the better retailers and doing 805 of our volume in 25% of our retailers.

JS Bulldozer and 6STAR Boards - MIKE CONNOLLY -OFS

info@jsindustries.com 

I am a US distributor for MADLUC, shaped by Jason Stevenson in Coolangatta, Australia. Over the last year I have heard a lot of about the "great surfboard depression" but that has not been my experience.

I don't want to say how many boards we import and sell a year, but it's a healthy number. When Clark went under there was some panic in America and that lead to people looking to Australian companies for boards. Clark had such a death grip on the market that there weren't a lot of Aussie boards being shipped into the US. On Tour, in Australia some of the pros would pick up a Tractor board and bring it back to the local shop.

That board would provide a creditable product that fueled demand. Soon after we positioned the boards with retailers that allowed a large part of the shop real estate sales were strong.  We quickly discovered that a healthy presentation of boards drove sales. This past year many retailers were excited that the hometown pro's were buying the boards off the rack. 

Lengthy internal discussions were held to make sure that our wholesale price did not drop and reflect any type of aggressive leverage in to the US board market during a complex period. 

JS shapes boards for Bruce and Andy, Parko and Occy, Jordy and five or six other amazing guys riding the boards so there was a demand over here. JS and the boards that he is shaping stand out through the riders, not embroidered pull-over track jackets. It's like a new strategy - we don't even have stickers. 

My favorite phone call that I have received from each dealer asking me for a banner - "nope, just boards" then the shop laughs and says, "I like that".  The buyers and owners suggest many reasons for the other lukewarm sales - I will leave that up to them to comment.  

We brought them in by airfreight and container and delivered the hell out of custom boards from AUS.  We have a solid distribution plan, forecasting sales rising faster than the rest of the bigger and smaller companies.  The entire board market is due for a sustained advance at some point.  There are too many people working hard and placing the right questions to their business on a day-to-day basis looking for the next change.

In the past year and a half I would say our prices have gone up $40 a board, 20 of that was used to shore up the foam and 20 for cost of business.  We have been resilient in the "Great Surfboard Depression" that everyone else is talking about. Now the trick is how do we keep growing at that same pace, and to do that right, you need to make sure the company in which your supporting is well managed.  

JIMMY FREESE

What kind of foam is coming through your factory, what is working best for which applications, do you see anything revolutionary coming through?

Through our factory we have Surfblanks from Australia, South Coast from Australia and Eskimo, mainly.  The yellow blanks from Surfblanks are the lightest PU blanks around, by far. They're untouchable and they ride insane, in fact the greens are super light, even those are in their own glass. I've been putting epoxy on those on my shortboards (even though they can be glassed with PE resin) and they're coming out pretty magic.

How many boards do you produce in a week, a month and a year?

We have a few thousand boards come through our factory.

Who do you think will survive, and who will drop out?

If Elova is still alive I don't expect to see them around, too heavy and bad color. Surfblanks Australia and America should stick around. Teccell (same formula as Surfblanks Australia) should stick around. By the way, Surfblanks America has a little different formula as Teccell and Surfblanks Australia and it really shows in the weight and I've heard in the liveliness of the board, but I can't speak on personal experience as I've never ridden a Surfblanks America blank.  

Is the supply of foam and production and sales of surfboards better or worse than it was a year ago?

Better, a year ago Clark went down, things were slow.

At the retail level, how has the closure of Clark Foam made things better or worse? Are surfboards harder to get, easier? Are they less or more expensive? Is the array of choices confusing consumers?

This is not really my area of expertise, but I would say there are lot of choices, which can be good for the consumer but as you mentioned, potentially confusing.

Any and all comments on the state of the surfboard industry appreciated.

I think the surfboard market is very healthy and will continue to do so. It would not surprise me if the sales of entry level boards dropped off a bit, as those have been at a all time high in the past few years. I was lucky enough to get to read the faxes that Clark has sent to his customers for the past 25 years regarding the state of the industry and other things he saw.

Was interesting to see that the middle of each decade board sales were very high, and better each time. the mid 2000's have been very high and a dip in sales wouldn't surprise me, but a major dip would surprise me. One thing is clear, the long term trend is up.

In Hawaii, it would be nice if some of the glass shops got up to speed a little more with glassing with epoxy as I've heard more and more of the factories in southern Cali have that pretty dialed and can handle production. But PU foam companies have filled in here pretty fast and the people making EPS boards aren't as high as other places. One reason for that is the jury is still out if they work as good for bigger waves. 
 
Becker Surfboards - DAVE HOLLANDER

bkrdh@beckersurf.com

When Clark went down we had a good supply of blanks and we thought, "No problem, we can survive this as long as the demand holds."  I have been involved with this business for 40 years and what I saw after the closure of Clark is what many called The Great Surfboard Depression. This happened right after Clark closed and out sales fell off dramatically like 30 or 40 per cent. And it wasn't just us, it was almost everyone I talked to: Fin companies, etc.

Some of the fin companies said, "I wish we were off 30%." But what I still don't understand is why it happened.  It's a mystery to me. Board prices went up but I talked to my managers and shop people and they said that wasn't the complaint, it's just that people stopped coming in and asking.

It wasn't because of prices and it wasn't because the market was flooded with cheap imports. I didn't see CostCo boards flooding the streets. It was a mystery to me and still is, because our numbers are still down in all of our shops.

We build our own polyurethane-core boards and sell EPS boards from other suppliers. While we have to be a little more creative at finding foam, it is generally there and available and for the most part it is better quality now: lighter, stronger and whiter. We have had an issue with blanks for our midsized boards, but for the most part there have been no problems.

At Becker we are using Rhino and Just Foam. I think the EPS stuff is a bunch of hype, because the foam has a bunch of issues: it's not easy to build and doesn't look very good. Cheap boards aren't taking the sales away.

Even surd tech thought they would be way up this year but they ware way down. In general our boards have increased $80 to $100 over last year, but I don't think it's the price that is keeping sales down. Customers aren't complaining about the price, generally they are surprised the boards aren't more expensive.

It's not price, and there are more and more people surfing. I don't know what is behind the Great Surfboard Depression, but it's still going and it's just a mystery to me.
 
TODD SUTZ

toddsutz@hotmail.com

Former HIC shaper. Over 20 years Experience in Board Building. Production Glasser (10 of that in Hawaii). Owner of Island Inspired Surfboards, Inc. and Glass Shop.  Retail Store Owner . Consultant and Foam Distributor of Warvel Foam Cores USA.

Who are you using?

The brands currently coming through my factory are Warvel, Ryno, Excell (China). What is working best in all applications is the Warvel Foam Core.  The molds are better than Excell, the foam is stronger than Ryno and Excell and Warvel glasses better. Revolutionary would be a much stronger foam, better constructed and engineered blanks... yes, that is Warvel.
 
How many boards do you produce in a week, a month and a year? 
 
25 to 30 / week, 200 / month, over 1000 / year.
 
Who do you think will survive, and who will drop out? 
 
I believe that whoever makes the best foam and is thinking past the TDI Blank (The old formula).

Is the supply of foam and production and sales of surfboards better or worse than it was a year ago?
 
The supply of foam for my company is better. My source is in the USA in North Carolina, just 3 hours from my factory.

At the retail level, how has the closure of Clark Foam made things better or worse? Are surfboards harder to get, easier? Are they less or more expensive? Is the array of choices confusing consumers?
 
At the retail level, the closure of Clark gave us an opportunity to educate the consumer and break out of the box. Consumers were asking questions and we had the answers they were seeking.
 
Here, surfboards are easier to get. I supply my own retail with boards... and my prices have remained consistent. My customers can view the board-making process from the retail area... so they see the entire process and know that they are getting an American product. The boards ride better, last longer and don't dent.
 
There is confusion about the choices, but that is where the education plays such an important role. The retailers and manufacturers that are experienced and knowledgeable about all aspects of the product and production will prevail.
 
Any and all comments on the state of the surfboard industry appreciated.
 
 I believe the surfboard industry has an opportunity to not revisit the same old thing and to take a big step forward in the areas of strength and performance. If we settle for the cheapest and the easiest or for what feels familiar, we are missing a huge opportunity to revolutionize the industry and the rider's experience. 
 
WALDEN SURFBOARDS - STEVE WALDEN

What kind of foam is coming through your factory, what is working best for which applications, do you see anything revolutionary coming through?

The "new Clark foam" US Blanks in the US and Bennet overseas.

How many boards do you produce in a week, a month and a year?

Probably A lot. 

Who do you think will survive, and who will drop out?

As far as foam company's maybe 50% will make it. Probably less. 

Is the supply of foam and production and sales of surfboards better or worse than it was a year ago?

Better. 

At the retail level, how has the closure of Clark Foam made things better or worse? Are surfboards harder to get, easier? Are they less or more expensive? Is the array of choices confusing consumers?

Better. Surfboards are easy to get and the prices for the manufactures are higher. It gave the industry the opportunity to raise the prices almost to where they should be. There will still be a lot more adjustments coming.

Any and all comments on the state of the surfboard industry appreciated.

The wicked witch is dead, long live the free market. Etc. etc.
 
DISTRIBUTORS

Fiberglass Supply - MATTHEW WEAVER

This is a complex topic to deal with, because it stretches from before the actual shutdown of Clark Foam and beyond the blank industry. Our business occupies an interesting niche in the surfboard manufacturing industry.  We deal with everybody from the garage builder that will do a few a year to those who have been diligent enough to make a living and a career out of building surfboards.

 We have some that are strictly shapers, some that do it all from shape to gloss & polish, and others that are retail shop owners and shapers.  It is quite an eclectic crowd.

What Gordon Clark provided extended way beyond what most people realize and I suppose that in a society where we have become accustom to having what we want available immediately the value of that is often unappreciated if not completely taken for granted.

From our perspective as a customer Clark Foam was an A+ vendor.  The service that we received from Clark was second to none.  While that may be an overused colloquialism I sincerely mean it.  Obviously they held a monopoly in their market but in this comparison I am comparing them to all of our vendors some of which are billion dollar companies that are quite good to deal with.

Clark provided an awesome selection of blanks. The depth and breadth of the selection allowed the custom shaper to hone in the proper blank for their customers and to be more productive and less wasteful.  In addition to the great selection any customer could request a rocker change at no additional charge, whether you wanted 1 blank or 10,000. Additionally Clark would keep that information on file and keep it private if so requested.

To us they provided vendor managed inventory and based on our past usage set up stocking amounts, which were very accurate. We of course had the last say as the customer and could tailor orders as needed. We would order a truckload of blanks at a time and had the ability to change our order up to two days before shipping!

I shouldn't forget to mention the ability to get custom stringers in a variety of woods, including sometimes in wood provided by the customer. Foam stringers, glue lines, curved stringers, etc.

While many people will argue about the quality of the product, which in the surfboard industry seems to be more of a subjective issue than a qualitative issue, Clark delivered a very consistent product with good quality foam, glue-ups, stringers, and all at a very reasonable price.

December '05 and January '06 I sat in a bunch of meetings with people from the industry and listened to all the grandiose plans to ramp up production, increase capacity, and rule the world of blanks. 

A few things became quite apparent: most of these people had no clue about what they were talking about, sure some of them had blown foam at one point or another but lacked the business acumen to be able to put together that kind of growth, not just from the standpoint of labor but also the requirement of capital. It also became apparent that there would be a glut of foam on the market even if half of the projections came true.

We made a decision to go with Excel blanks right away, we made that decision for a variety of reasons that are confidential.  I would be willing to discuss them with you but would appreciate it if they were kept confidential.

What we found out is that we really misjudged our customers. We did the best we could to allocate blanks to customers based on previous purchasing patterns then we figured that we would bring in blanks right away to allow our customers to be able to get in the shaping bay and be aggressive about getting new business. 

What we ended up with was almost completely the opposite.  Our key customers horded their left over Clark blanks and most of our shapers cut back on production and went into hibernation. We anticipated a surge in EPS/Epoxy construction that never really materialized.  Yes there are more people doing it but not a significant number.

As for some of the questions you asked in your first e-mail: I can't answer how much is foreign vs. domestic.  That probably isn't the right question to ask anyway.  I think what will happen over time is that domestically produced blanks (including North America) will outsell overseas blanks for custom shapes.

I think that you will see the market continue to stratify further, which will be brand name customs (in regards to price), specialty boards, local customs, and price point.  Price point boards will be dominated by imported boards and I think that the specialty board market
will also suffer an intrusion from imports.

If one steps back and takes a good look at the surfboard manufacturing process a few things will be noted.  First most production boards are very similar within their style genres, regardless of the manufacturer.  We had one potential foam vendor mention that when they were developing their blank molds that they were surprised that most boards they measured only deviated by about 1/16".

The second thing that will be noticed is that it is a very labor intensive process, there have been advances in shaping but nothing really of note in the glassing process. In today's economic environment U.S. manufacturing is at a distinct disadvantage to compete in manual labor market. The third thing to note is that the barrier to entry is very low.

In fact the problem is exacerbated on a global scale because the barrier to entry is even lower outside of the U.S. than it is inside the U.S. due to the regulations and restrictions placed on domestic manufactures of any size by regulatory agencies.

What that means in a nutshell is that it is an industry that is prime for a deep intrusion by offshore manufacturing.  I don't pretend to know what the consequences of all that means, it may be good for the industry, it may not. Those who are most creative and innovative will come out O.K. that is something that I think we have seen this year. Board builders that were best able to innovate and differentiate have done better than those who have not.

I'm not sure what to say on prices.  It was no secret that Clark had steady pricing during the last few years in which we saw rampant inflation in the petrol-chemical industry.  If you think gas pricing was bad there were also shortages of certain chemicals that come from the refining process and are used in surfboard manufacturing that rose during that time at a more rapid rate than the price of oil.

What we got from Clark was probably under priced.  Prices are up now and sometimes they are hard to swallow.  As a distributor we get squeezed because new manufacturers don't understand the value of the distribution system and often don't work that into their pricing or a customer doesn't recognize the hidden costs of ordering direct and will try to circumvent the distributor. 

Prices will probably stay up, in fact I would consider it a new threshold, since the new blank manufacturers will need to recover the costs of startup and make a return to their investors I really don't foresee prices coming down all that much if at all.

I'm going to assume that "alternative suppliers" means imported boards. They are going to do well.  The equation is really simple, most of the market here is saturated with little real difference in shape from manufacturer to manufacturer, then look at labor, a finished board takes 5-7 man hours to produce, in industries outside of the surfboard market the value put on that time would typically be rated at $60 per hour or better, which would mean the value added to the materials would need to be at least $300. 

Compare that to labor rates in China that are an average of $7 per day for workers in a surfboard factory, which means that the cost of the value added is only around $5-6.  Look at the buying habits of the general public, we like to buy cheap, if we didn't wal-mart, target, and k-mart wouldn't be around. 

Yes there will always be people that golf with Ping clubs, fish with Lamiglas rods, and surf with custom surfboards, however that market is smaller than the general market which is perfectly content to get a price point surfboard.  I even have had customers in other manufacturing markets, that own manufacturing businesses flat out tell me that for the price they would buy imported boards over domestic boards. 

I could go on, after all we haven't even began to look at outside influences in Southern California that probably would prove that a person working in surfboard manufacturing has seen his real wage decrease over time due to the forces of inflation around him.

As for the issue of customer service; is it better or worse?

It is worse.Coming up with a decent foam is easy enough but then you have to cut it and glue in a stringer.  You have to make sure the rocker line is correct, the glue is correct, that the stringer is properly prepped for glue, that the blank is cut straight, and that the blank is not twisted too badly when it is glued up.  We've seen blanks from Surfblanks that have a really good foam but are mostly unusable due to twist. 

We've seen blanks where half the blanks comes unglued from the stringer because it wasn't properly prepped. We've had blanks where the foam along the stringer was discolored from the glue (Bennett USA and Marko).  We've had blanks with weird bubbles in them in odd places.

Customer service to us is also about the relationship between the vendor and the customer.  Almost all of the blank manufacturers have wanted cash up front.  That's one thing when you get to inspect the product before you buy it, it is another when you're buying sight unseen from an unproven vendor.

In respect to this I must give kudos to Excel and Just Foam, both extended terms and were good to deal with in this regard. Delivery is another issue.  I think that Just Foam and Marko have been the best so far in delivering an order that actually resembled our purchase order. 

U.S. Blanks shipped us 10 blanks that were for another customer, Bennett shipped us a bare bones skeleton of what we originally ordered, the first orders from Excel weren't anything close to what I had ordered.

Frankly I think it will be a long while before we get the kind of service we used to have. I could go on, however I really need to get some work done.  Feel free to contact me any time.

 
DEWEY WEBER SURFBOARDS - SHEA WEBER - PRESIDENT

www.deweyweber.com
shea@deweyweber.com

What kind of foam is coming through your factory, what is working best for which applications, do you see anything revolutionary coming through? 

For our PU production, we are using predominantly Walker Foam, but we also use some blanks from Just Foam and are looking at a few from US Foam.  For our EPS production, we are using predominantly White Hot Foam, but have used Marko as well. 

How many boards do you produce in a week, a month and a year? 

This is a tough question because of the what the hardgoods industry has experienced in the last couple of years.  Bad weather 2 years ago and then Clark.  If the question is what did we produce in 2006, I would say we averaged about 30 boards a week, 115 a month, and 1350 for the year.  That is down from 2004 were we did closer to 1500 boards. 

2007 is looking like the value of the custom board is reestablishing itself as all of our international pre-bookings are up (substantially).  The domestic market is the big question mark.  A lot of the Retailers that we saw at Expo and ASR are still sitting on quite a bit of inventory.  I don't see them buying anything until they start moving product. 

With some of the mags finally helping with consumer education (different board technology and construction), I think the consumer will be ready to purchase again.  As an industry (mainly the surf publications), we laid the Clark bombshell on the consumer, and until just recently, hadn't followed up to explain what was going on.  I think a lot of people were waiting for someone to tell them it was O.K. to buy surfboards again.     

Who do you think will survive, and who will drop out?

Great question, but maybe too early to tell.  I do think we will be down to 4 - 6 PU manufacturers at some point in the future.  Maybe 3 or 4 EPS manufacturers.  I don't think the industry can support more than that, but we will see.

Is the supply of foam and production and sales of surfboards better or worse than it was a year ago?

The supply of foam is better and will continue to be better.  I think from a foam standpoint, we are in a great place as an industry.  In regards to sales of surfboards, I would say worse.  A year ago, Clark's closure really freaked people out.  Many Retailers bought a lot of product.  Some consumers rushed out and bought up the last "Clark" boards. 

Others decided to just get the boards they had fixed until things worked themselves out.  Now, with so many different types of board construction, many consumers (and retailers) are confused.  The more we can do as an industry to educate, the better sales will be.  I have seen great "construction" articles in LongBoard Magazine and Surfing Mag. 

There's been a little info in the other mags, but I think if they all dedicated a couple of pages from this point forward and did a "Tech Corner," the consumer would be able to consistently learn more about the different aspects of this high tech composite product.   

At the retail level, how has the closure of Clark Foam made things better or worse? Are surfboards harder to get, easier? Are they less or more expensive? Is the array of choices confusing consumers?

 I think I might have answered part of this in one of the other questions. . . .Sorry!  I think the confusing thing (and as industry people we need to watch this) is that we keep lumping all surfboards together.  The question should be about what surfboard construction methods are harder or easier to get (ie. PU, EPS, Composite Sandwich, Hollow Carbon Fiber, etc.). 

With companies like Surftech and Boardworks, surfboards are not hard to get.  But if a retailer filled the store with composite sandwich boards and imported PU boards after Clark closed thinking consumers would know the difference, you might be sitting on a lot of product right now.  My assessment is the average consumer walks into a store and just sees surfboards. 

If we told them that Clark supplied 95% of the surfboard industry with foam, then there was a chance they misunderstood the statistic and decided to not buy any new surfboards until we told them it was O.K.  This could explain why so many dealers are overloaded with hardgoods right now.  To the average consumer surfboards are surfboards (apples to apples). 

This is certainly not an apples to apples industry anymore, and there are more than just apples and oranges on the market today.

Any and all comments on the state of the surfboard industry appreciated.

 I think we are all a part of one of the biggest revolutions in surfboard manufacturing history, and as scary as it might be, we will look back on it and we will be thrilled that we were involved in it. 

For the better part of the last year and a half, I've been waiting for things to get back to "NORMAL," but what I realized is there is a new normal on the horizon and we all need to figure out how we build, market, and sell in this new "NORMAL."  It should be exciting!!

FOAM EZ - BRAD NADELL

How crazy did your business get after Blank Monday?

Extremely, we closed the doors for two weeks and answered thousands of phone calls and emails.  Everyone wanted to know what happened and we were there source for information.  We were the "go to" for the big time established shaper as well as normal people who had heard the story via the news or word of mouth.

At any point did you despair of things going back to normal?

I knew things would never be normal for us again.  Since Clark Foam had a monopoly and we were one of very few Clark Foam suppliers we had the same monopoly.  You either got it from Clark or you got it from us.

What was the worst behavior you witnessed having to do with the blank shortage?

People tried boycotting us since they thought we were assholes for closing our doors and increasing our prices (supply & demand).  Other friends/shapers started bringing in foam from overseas and tried to replicate our business just a few doors down.

Was there a point or an incident where you knew things were getting back to normal?

Like I said before things will never be "normal" for us again.  It's a completely different world out there.  Although things feel more normal now that we're carrying US Blanks since we are familiar with the foam and the faces/voices down there.

How are your supply lines now?

We're having no issues getting foam.  That part of our business is almost exactly like it was prior to Blank Monday.  It might even be better, in that, we get customs and usually our complete order on a weekly basis.

Who is coming through and who isn't?

For sure, US Blanks is coming through.  I don't want to say who isn't since I don't want to demean any other business.

Who are closest to providing the service and quality that Clark did before?

US Blanks is by far the closest since they are the former key employees from Clark.  They know the industry and know how to get it to the people.

Did prices go up substantially in the past year?

Some companies came in the market with extremely high prices out of the gate but I think in general prices are pretty reasonable, about 20% higher than the days of Clark.  Prices had to go up; it's a different world now.  Fuel/oil products are higher, businesses have huge start up costs (Clark was around for 40 years), there is less market share, there is less of a market, etc…

Article by Ben Marcus

Industry - Surfersvillage